Some Words About MVP Programs

My daily musings about software and technology

I'm Keyvan Nayyeri, a 28 years old software engineer working at Match.Com and living in Dallas, Texas.

I have a Master’s degree in computer science and a bachelor's degree in applied mathematics. I’m also known to be a technical author with several technical publications in the form of books and articles. Besides, I'm an open source enthusiast and have coordinated or contributed to several projects. Currently, I maintain my projects on GitHub.

As a content provider on the internet, not only I publish on this technical blog, but also I'm a podcaster and publish audio podcasts on Mash This.

Trying to maintain a healthy and active lifestyle, I'm a pescetarianist and exercise almost everyday. I’m an avid runner, soccer defender, and tennis player. I also have an interest in fashion.

Some Words About MVP Programs

Published on October 12, 2006

[Update2: I had missed a "Don't" in my post which changed its content. Now it's corrected. My apologies. MVPs, please forgive me!]

[Update1: More discussions are coming to make this topic the topic of the month in community. Jamie Cansdale, Frans Bouma and Steven Smith have written about this.]

Recently there were some news about Microsoft MVP program. Some known names such as James Cansdale, Paul Wilson and Chris Garrett haven't been awarded for 2007 and Roy Osherove and Brendan Tompkins have written about MVP program.

I don't want to ask why Microsoft hasn't chosen those men as MVPs but I want to say MVP programs doesn't play the role that are expected to play. Also I don't want to say every guy who is considered as MVP shouldn't be an MVP actually.

You know already Microsoft and Telligent give MVP awards to individual developers who work on their products (I don't know any other company with same award, if you know please leave a comment and let me know). But I can't be sure they're giving an MVP award, I can name it MAG (Most Active Guy) because these companies are giving these awards to anyone who is providing content for their products or is advertising for their products.

If you check to see how companies choose their MVPs, can find that they choose developers who are active on communities (writing articles, speaking at user groups and answering to tons of forum posts are most common parameters for recognition) and what's in an MVP award for a developer? Usually free licenses for products or good discounts plus some other things such as using VIP level in conferences and being invited to summits and also a good point in their resume.

But what will these companies get? They get free support and advertisement from their MVPs who are encouraged to keep their MVP award and now love that company and their products. Yes, I should stop here and confirm that many developers loved these companies and products before being an MVP, yes, this is right! I love Community Server regardless of being an MVP or not, it's same for many other MVPs.

I can't judge this MVP award is bad or good. I'm a Community Server MVP myself and am happy for this but I think companies should rename this award. People who are being chosen as MVP in a product mustn't be a Most Valuable Professional indeed. Look, one of the major groups of people who are awarded as MVP by Microsoft are community owners. Others write articles, answer to forums and keep a community alive but owner gets the award but I (and maybe you) have seen many of these owners who were just an amateur guy in that field. I'm sure there are many community owners that must be an MVP but on the other side many other owners mustn't be!

We already know many developers who must be an MVP but aren't. Phil Haack and Jeff Atwood are two instances in Microsoft products (I can add a list of Community Server team member names who created a powerful platform) and Thomas Freudenberg is another instance for Community Server. But why they're not an MVP? Answer is very simple (as I guess), because they haven't answered to many forum posts, haven't written many articles or haven't spoken in user groups. Is there anybody who says these men shouldn't be an MVP?!

Generally we have two groups of people: one group are who are professional and have been active such as Scott Watermasysk, Scott Hanselman and many other names that can't be listed here so should be an MVP and another group consists of people who shouldn't be an MVP at all (let's keep their names private!).

Being an MVP can be beneficial for a developer but it has many benefits for companies though. Companies should know that MVP award isn't a good way to encourage people. Many developers do what an MVP does (even more) and don't expect any award because they love a product. I suggest companies to give their awards to these guys because they're only guys who can keep and improve it.

I hope companies change their look at MVP programs. Quality is falling down since Microsoft is giving its MVP awards randomly! Even they don't give their awards to active community members, they're just doing odd things.

Fortunately Telligent MVP award could be success up to now and beneficial, both for MVPs and Telligent (I didn't say that to keep my award, that's a truth which I hope we don't miss it).

+ Above paragraphs were just my thoughts about what is happening to my beloved communities and could be wrong and I gave them to help improve things. You know I rarely write these kinds of posts.

10 Comments

Haacked
Oct 12, 2006 6:47 PM
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I love how your post on MVPs has an adsense link to "Limo at the Emmys". MVP indeed! :) Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.

Rob Conery
Oct 12, 2006 6:58 PM
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I agree on a few points (Phil Haack and Jeff Atwood should defniitely be MVPs) but I think you're misunderstanding what an MVP does. First, an MVP needs to be nominated. I nominated Phil H this year and I found out it was his first nomination. MS doesn't watch the community like you might think they do, and they certainly don't hand pick these developers. They need to be nominated by other MVPs or by internal MS people who are aware of their contributions. Next, when MS awards an MVP, it's for a specific discipline. I received mine from MS for my contribution of the Starter Kit and the many hours of not only supporting it, but also helping out developers in general. My discipline is Web Developer/ASP.NET. In many ways this ties directly to an MS product. In terms of "another group consists of people who shouldn't be an MVP at all" I am sure there are exceptions, but I might suggest not writing something like this unless you're willing to stand behind it (otherwise it sounds like sour grapes :). It's not easy at all to become an MVP - I was asked to submit a lot of information in the form of testimonials and online participation (that they read thoroughly before selection). This statement: >>Microsoft is giving its MVP awards randomly is completely false. If you're going to write something like this, know what you're talking about. It took me 8 years of very hard work to get to this level and I was almost passed over. Finally - I'm not trying to jump on you for :). I might suggest you find out the details (email Steve Dybing at MS who is the head of the MVP program) and he will be happy to tell you all the details you need to know. Cheers, Rob Conery

Keyvan Nayyeri
Oct 12, 2006 9:54 PM
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Rob, I agree with you in all parts but I said there are enough exceptions. I said some people shouldn't be an MVP because they shouldn't be. If MVP wants to stand for Most Valuable Professional, anyone who gets it should have enough experiences in that field. But I (and many other guys) have seen several MVPs who were just an amateur in the field. If you want some examples, just send me an email ;-) I appreciate the work you and many other MVPs have done. I'm sure you spent your time to get it. But I say there are some MVPs who are awarded because Microsoft doesn't follow its program as we expected to do. And yes, Microsoft gives its award randomly (in mathematic you'll have a random behavior even one iteration is different from others!). Generally, I didn't say every MVP shouldn't be an MVP, did I?! I said some MVPs shouldn't be an MVP. I appreciate your comment and thoughts. Thanks very much.

Thomas Freudenberg
Oct 13, 2006 1:14 PM
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Keyvan, you set the ball rolling. And thanks for nominating me [;)] As long as you CS MVPs endure my contributions to CSMVPs.CSModules I don't mind not being a MVP [;)]

Keyvan Nayyeri
Oct 13, 2006 1:23 PM
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Thomas, I'm sure you deserve to be an MVP, this is what I (and other MVPs) confirm. Your contribution to our Alabaster pack was a great opportunity at least for me to enjoy your great work :-)

James Shaw
Oct 15, 2006 5:41 PM
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"Generally, I didn't say every MVP shouldn't be an MVP, did I?! I said some MVPs shouldn't be an MVP." yes, you did, didn't you?.. "Also I want to say every guy who is considered as MVP shouldn't be an MVP actually" ..but perhaps I'm misunderstanding your writing...

Keyvan Nayyeri
Oct 15, 2006 7:50 PM
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Oh, I'm so sorry. I missed a "Don't". I hope all MVPs forgive me. That was a bad mistake. Thank you so much, James.

Brad Jones
Oct 17, 2006 6:52 AM
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I also disagree with a couple of comments and suggest you talk with a few of the leaders fo the MVP program and your MVP Lead about some of the issues you raise. I agree with Rob Conery's remarks. The MVP program may -seem- random, but that is because of the nomination processes that Microsoft uses. To some extent it is somewhat random, but there is a rhyme and a reason to how it progresses. If someone is not nominated, then there is a good chance they won't receive the award. Additionally, (based on my understanding from talking to people running the program), the MVP award is not about indepth technical knowledge on a topic, rather it is an "influencer's award". MVPs are a part of what Microsoft consideres "Influencers" -- people who make an impact in the community regarding a technology. In this regard, a person who is active in the community that is a novice is more likely to get the award than a hard-core person on a technology who doesn't do anything visisible in the community. This is not to say there aren't exceptions -- because there are, but if you are a betting person, then bet on the more visible person to get the award over the more technical. At the end of the day, it is the more visibly active person that is likely be helping out people using the given product, and thus more likely to be a benefit to the awarding team at Microsoft. Having said this, you made an interesting post. The MVP award is an interesting program. I think Microsoft is doing a great job withi it overall. Like most programs that involves recognition, it isn't perfect, but it seems to be getting much better.

Keyvan Nayyeri
Oct 17, 2006 7:26 AM
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Brad,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and leaving your comments.

If we agree on the definition you wrote about MVPs "rather it is an influencer's award", we have no problem and MVP program is doing its job perfectly (my personal understanding is similar to yours).

I agree that Microsoft wants to nail to this goal but hasn't chosen a correct name. This name (MVP) can cheat people. An active guy shouldn't be a Valuable Professional. He may be or may not. We can't recognize someone for this from some of the parameters that Microsoft uses to recognize an MVP (such as answering to forum posts).

Generally I think more than 90% of MVPs are both active and Valuable Professional so can be recognized regardless of our understandings from MVP program. But those 10% ...

I think those 10% are being chosen because they're advertising for Microsoft products and are growing their community. I can't find any reason to choose a community owner as MVP for his ownership (someone like Steven Smith must be an MVP not for his communities but for his experiences). There are some MVPs who have a community but are just amateur (as I said in my post).

However, as you said and I confirm, MVP program (or any other program similar to this) is a great way to make a community active. As MVPs are chosen by Microsoft, there are good benefits for them so they're happy. This program is a Win-Win program but I want to point that we shouldn't forget about something: MVP programs have great benefits for companies. They're a part of their support which needs less money and is being done by third parties.

At the end, I think Microsoft should change its way for recognitions a bit. I can't distinguish between the MVP award of someone who doesn't know much things about ASP.NET and Scott Water's award, can you?

The last thing that I should mention is one of old posts by Jim Minateal who has directed most of famous .NET books with famous MVPs. Unfortunately the quality of MVP program is falling down (at least for development fields):

http://wroxblog.typepad.com/minatel/2006/02/wally_mcclure_o.html

portrait artist
Dec 10, 2007 2:11 AM
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So far I’ve been reading a lot of posts that were awarded that mysterious MVP award. Most of them were great read and truly deserving of such award. How do you qualify for such an award? Do you have to join an organization or online group? What do you have to contribute?

Keyvan Nayyeri

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